tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post5050818799501809116..comments2024-03-28T10:30:51.283+01:00Comments on Grain de musc: It's an odour, not a perfume...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-84294287711384133412010-12-02T17:19:57.190+01:002010-12-02T17:19:57.190+01:00Columbine, could be the ubiquitous Ambroxan? Sorry...Columbine, could be the ubiquitous Ambroxan? Sorry I can't be more helpful. That's sad what you say about the Artisan shop near the Louvre as it's their flagship store. The person I used to deal with was the perfumer Stéphanie Bakouche who is also their trainer but she's not on<br />the floor anymore and I've never spoken<br />with the other SAs. I've heard complaints about the London staff. I hope they'll address the issue.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-8149111142096369772010-12-02T17:05:33.238+01:002010-12-02T17:05:33.238+01:00just saw the thread on Dzing! we bought it last Sa...just saw the thread on Dzing! we bought it last Saturday at an Artisan Parfumeur shop in Paris. the sale assistant did not mention anything but then she was so uninterested in what she sells (she did not even know who had created Dzing!) that she may not have known herself. there are probably nicer AP shops in Paris, i don't recommend the one next to the Louvre.<br /><br />about the beeswax, i don't expect that there is any in Portrait of the lady, so i still don't know what is so overpowering there on my skin...:- (columbinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-29921842589218408302010-12-02T12:35:08.462+01:002010-12-02T12:35:08.462+01:00Columbine, well there you go: bees wax. Fumerie Tu...Columbine, well there you go: bees wax. Fumerie Turque has got a lot of bees wax, and that's the first thing I thought of when you mentioned propolis, but since you'd spoken about leather...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-73999119856430939682010-12-02T10:08:50.163+01:002010-12-02T10:08:50.163+01:00Nozknoz, I see what you mean about "art on a ...Nozknoz, I see what you mean about "art on a shirt" versus a design pattern... But I wouldn't imagine a perfume, however complex and beautiful it is, could be too distracting either. Mind you, we're not permanently aware of the perfume we wear or we'd go nuts (which is why a scrubber can make us want to flay ourselves).<br />As for the "skin-friendly" notes, I'm wondering whether they enter the equation in artistic terms, or just because of the mode of conveyance of the scent, the human body. Probably artistic in the sense that you have to factor those notes in your formula, they're part of the harmony. But you could perfectly imagine an olfactory piece that wouldn't be conceived for the skin. <br />Another thing is that we'll carry, and thus "contemplate" a perfume for hours and days, which is a lot more time we'd give to a painting or even the longest Wagner opera. I don't know whether that's still entirely relevant to what we're discussing, though...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-55710607567563573012010-12-02T04:41:58.621+01:002010-12-02T04:41:58.621+01:00Sorry, forgot to sign off the museum shirt comment...Sorry, forgot to sign off the museum shirt comment as nozknoz!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-10491083161184860832010-12-02T04:40:39.804+01:002010-12-02T04:40:39.804+01:00Certainly the way you described skin-friendliness ...Certainly the way you described skin-friendliness in your post made sense to me, and you are right, one could think of it in terms of creamy, peachy, coconutty, fatty, etc. <br /><br />Of course, I don't usually think of scent that way, just as I don't think of art that way. I wonder if I could answer this question in terms of art, for which I do have all the words, i.e., what separates fabric designs from paintings? Usually designs are simpler and repetitive.<br /><br />I have a museum shirt from Vienna with a reproduction of a painting on it. It is beautiful, but I don't wear it often because it is so arresting/distracting. I guess aromas and ambient fragrances need to be less distracting, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-8758131135716540012010-12-01T18:49:30.359+01:002010-12-01T18:49:30.359+01:00Grazie, Giovanni... I'm quite the tuberose lov...Grazie, Giovanni... I'm quite the tuberose lover as well.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-34799156331374521732010-12-01T18:47:28.418+01:002010-12-01T18:47:28.418+01:00Your blog is my favourite!
Congratulations!!! you ...Your blog is my favourite!<br />Congratulations!!! you write very well and it's always very interesting.<br />About me the best scent on the skin is always tuberouse.Giovannihttp://www.fragrancescout.itnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-69790085360595572852010-12-01T15:37:38.325+01:002010-12-01T15:37:38.325+01:00EEM, of course they're messages, but how much ...EEM, of course they're messages, but how much of the message comes from our representation of the brand we bought, the projection onto the name of the perfume, and how much from the actual notes?carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-8388069681864865172010-12-01T11:26:51.853+01:002010-12-01T11:26:51.853+01:00sorry for the typos...not too concentrated todaysorry for the typos...not too concentrated todayeemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-20185240367934901562010-12-01T11:22:01.753+01:002010-12-01T11:22:01.753+01:00oh...but the unconscious worn on the skin is clear...oh...but the unconscious worn on the skin is clearly a form of communication. people kiss each other socially, they stand close to each other in lifts and in airplane isles...they do tell stories - more or less aware of that - about their idea of beauty, their perception of who they are, their budget, their social class, their sexuality. All that is given and taken, breathed in and out, constantly. Odours and fragrance - both are means of communication.eemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-28779141128158727262010-12-01T07:29:13.606+01:002010-12-01T07:29:13.606+01:00Nozknoz, I really don't know whether it's ...Nozknoz, I really don't know whether it's the Dzing discontinuation rumor that was started years ago when Marina of PST was working for L'Artisan and talked about the discontinuation of the 50 ml: the rumor was reprised as is in The Guide. So I wouldn't wager on its accuracy: 100 ml are still sold...<br /><br />For the notes... Well you might not pick them out by themselves, but you'd be aware of the way they act in the blend, as an adjective (creamy, peachy, coconutty, fatty, etc.), wouldn't you?carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-17349314334891144382010-12-01T05:23:12.329+01:002010-12-01T05:23:12.329+01:00Denyse, regarding Dzing!, I read this on The Non-B...Denyse, regarding Dzing!, I read this on The Non-Blonde blog, a Friday, November 19 post on discontinued perfumes. Checking back, it is not clear from the post if Gaia had new information or was still going on what the Guide said. I guess I tend to accept this at face value because Luckyscent, for example, has not had the 50-ml bottles for the last year, at least. My hypothesis is that if Dzing! had been discontinued, the 50-ml bottles would sell out first, so this is a sign of impending doom. I hope I'm wrong (and apologize for spreading misinformation if that is the case) - it is such a great scent!<br /><br />Such an intriguing post. So frustrating to try to think about it without understanding notes better. Reminds me of a program I heard about language - rats can't learn to find food that is always placed to the right of the blue wall, and children cannot do it either until they learn the prepositions. ~~nozknozAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-34565746639142387382010-11-30T23:10:49.832+01:002010-11-30T23:10:49.832+01:00Persolaise, the only time I choose a scent as a de...Persolaise, the only time I choose a scent as a deliberate form of communication is when I'm seeing a man: the rest of the time I think the communication, at least consciously, is only between me and myself. But that doesn't exclude some sort of instinctive message... We tend not to think of perfumes as being real tattle-tales because they're invisible, but they're really our subconscious worn on our skin...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-3914528339606807592010-11-30T20:36:14.895+01:002010-11-30T20:36:14.895+01:00I would say that perfume is absolutely a form of c...I would say that perfume is absolutely a form of communication. How does the line go: "Every morning when I decide what I'm going to wear, what I'm actually deciding is who I'm going to be." I'm sure I haven't got the quotation exactly right - and it did originally refer to clothing - but you get the idea.<br /><br />Having said that, I'm sure an odour communicates too... but maybe it doesn't communicate as much... which perhaps brings us back to complexity.<br /><br />I'm also inclined to side with the Anonymous comment that a lot of this comes down to semantics.Persolaisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04192014353722036319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-42564436491815163442010-11-30T18:41:19.808+01:002010-11-30T18:41:19.808+01:00Yeah, girl, you got it!
-MarlaYeah, girl, you got it!<br />-MarlaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-89634244778776787892010-11-30T17:51:32.630+01:002010-11-30T17:51:32.630+01:00Marla, it also explains why they're stanky to ...Marla, it also explains why they're stanky to a lot of people... it's a whiff of the beast within.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-22427275930158377872010-11-30T17:48:53.048+01:002010-11-30T17:48:53.048+01:00Yes, you see what works or what doesn't for a ...Yes, you see what works or what doesn't for a particular situation. And I think you've nailed it on the white florals/animalics (certainly explains why the vintages still sell)!<br />-MarlaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-59187531266824569382010-11-30T17:34:38.559+01:002010-11-30T17:34:38.559+01:00Marla, I guess that when perfumers attempt to go b...Marla, I guess that when perfumers attempt to go beyond the old "tried and true" bases to invent new forms, there's no single answer: you see what works and what doesn't. What's a quirky, original or interesting smell that doesn't need you to exist because it is a whole story in and of itself, and what is partly... human? Animal? I think that's why all the great classics had animal notes, or white flowers: they prolonged our animality under the sublime beauty.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-72571395830253170452010-11-30T17:29:56.886+01:002010-11-30T17:29:56.886+01:00I like what was said on the French side, I think t...I like what was said on the French side, I think that's true, and odors can certainly be harnessed to become communicative materials; but at what point do the odors become perfumes(if worn on the body)?<br />-MarlaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-58203081140987146482010-11-30T17:13:21.211+01:002010-11-30T17:13:21.211+01:00Marla, I'm supposing you mean that those signa...Marla, I'm supposing you mean that those signals are sent on a kind of subconscious, jungle/savannah level... Otherwise a lot of people could answer: I wear perfume for myself. Could be that the *impulse* to scent oneself is what's instinctive, rather than the notes themselves? As for the chosen notes, they'd be a cross between social convention (white musk = clean), personal experience (driven partly by social convention since that would be what we were in contact with, at least for some of the notes), and maybe some deap-seated archetypes?<br />Not sure that it's related to the odor/perfume distinction but on the French side, someone was saying that perfume would be something like your manifesto, whereas an odor would be something that doesn't need you to exist.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-34958821649721901362010-11-30T16:58:50.496+01:002010-11-30T16:58:50.496+01:00Well, as sometimes happens with your more philosop...Well, as sometimes happens with your more philosophical essays, I can't stop thinking of the central questions..."Oi've gotta thought...formin' in me 'ed!"<br />Thinking of "Simian Central" in that we come from a particular branch of the mammalian tree, and use scent as markers and signals, do you think, ultimately, perfume is a form of communication? Odor vs. Perfume, of course it's defined culturally, and the definitions change over time, but both are signals and forms of non-verbal communication. So what do the changes of the last 10 years in perfumery in the West say about what we are supposed to communicate to others, and what do we communicate when we "go renegade" by wearing very strange niche perfumes, naturals, or vintage? Wearing vintages for a few days, I've been pondering these questions....<br />-MarlaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-82447175915374540072010-11-30T11:36:25.618+01:002010-11-30T11:36:25.618+01:00Parfymerad, your comment raises three really inter...Parfymerad, your comment raises three really interesting points:<br />1/ The idea of "disembodied", which is another criterion I've heard applied to compositions that are judged as "odours". In fact the anthropologist Annick Le Guérer uses the term to talk about *all* of modern perfumery, in the sense that it's lost the medicinal and mystical properties that were ascribed to perfume for centuries (and still are in some cultures.)<br /><br />2/ The more "concise" formulas vs. the richer ones... it's an interesting point to consider, but a little "throw enough mud on the wall and some will stick"... But for sure, if you add musk, lactones, ambers, you're going to get something that segues with skin. And most modern perfumes have all of those things. <br /><br />3/ The vegetal/animal themes: I don't know of many perfumes that would be, say, mineral or so synthetic *nothing* in them echoes a vegetal or animal smell... But you're right that our bodies share many odorant molecules with the vegetal and animal kingdoms. Lactones, musks, aldehydes: it's all there on our skins. There are many "smelly" molecules out there, and they're distributed all over, including in us.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-89763130921577132712010-11-30T11:22:45.645+01:002010-11-30T11:22:45.645+01:00Fascinating topic as usual. For me, 'skin-fri...Fascinating topic as usual. For me, 'skin-friendliness' is an important factor in how I chose and evaluate perfumes - there are notes and perfumes I find stunning, but that I don't wear because they feel too disembodied. Most incenses and lov scents fit in this category for me, as do the majority of JCE's Hermessences. This 'disembodied' effect also makes me think of what some people refer to as the 'space' between molecules/notes: not sure what the actual chemical reality of that is, but I find scents perceived as 'dense' or 'rich' do better on skin, even when they're incensey etc. (perhaps it's merely that the more ingredients a perfume contians, the more likely it is to exhibit a note that is 'human-friendly'). Another vague and no doubt unfounded theory I have is that scents copied from living organisms (plants/animals) will inevitably share more facets with human scents than dead/inorganic ones. Any truth in that do you think?Parfymeradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-81790394386534965262010-11-30T10:02:04.735+01:002010-11-30T10:02:04.735+01:00Anonymous, Christopher Brosius' work is fascin...Anonymous, Christopher Brosius' work is fascinating and it displaces the definition of perfume: what can be the "subject" of it, how it is used... After all, he was the one who called his company "I hate perfume", so he's clearly out to break new ground, and he does. In this case, you're right, site of application doesn't matter: you could put Black March on a handkerchief and sniff at it all day, rather than wear it on skin, and it wouldn't change its evocative effect. *What* it evokes is another matter: to my Chinese students, Black March smells of kale. And once you hear "kale", it's hard not so smell it. So, yes, it *is* a matter of language. It always is.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.com