tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post5975327937772998589..comments2024-03-29T09:11:58.393+01:00Comments on Grain de musc: What stinks?carmencanada /Grain de Muschttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-80434386437359522942008-08-23T23:27:00.000+02:002008-08-23T23:27:00.000+02:00Lucy, that's an extremely interesting take on clas...Lucy, that's an extremely interesting take on classic French perfumery. We'll never know what went on in Jacques Guerlain or André Fraysse's minds when they composed their masterpieces -- if they deliberately, or subconsciously, added notes that would evoke maculinity to the women who wore their compositions... <BR/>However, as far as I know, people like François Coty also aimed their fragrances to the working women, if only in the form of colognes and fragrant powders.<BR/><BR/>But you're right, the demographics have changed, and so have consumers' aspirations.<BR/><BR/>As for the new markets, I know that China doesn't have a tradition for personal fragrance and so Chinese consumers might want rather light compositions, but I have heard that the Russians often go for big, opulent fragrances.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-41203719395681778962008-08-23T14:17:00.000+02:002008-08-23T14:17:00.000+02:00I sometimes despair when I read how all the vast a...I sometimes despair when I read how all the vast areas of the world relatively new to consumerist marketing, such as Asia and Russia, have all been focus grouped to death, and now they know the result is a wish to smell "clean" most of all. I guess that means we can anticipate a lot more "clean" scents being designed for these new huge markets.<BR/> <BR/>Perfume was a luxury in the European old world, not the mass market item it is getting to be today, so there were different standards. The traditional European perfume style is geared I think especially towards women of leisure, or women who depended on men. Such a woman's most memorable scents are those of the man she is in love with. A worn shirt, horses, cigarettes, leather, the accessories of masculinity, not so perfectly clean sometimes, but having that energy or note that is a distinctive marker triggering memories. My theory, anyway.<BR/>Maybe adding those tiny bits of sweat/leaf mold, or bloodiness into the old style perfumes was just taken for granted as being necessary to push the composition over the edge into "must have it" category for the kind of women who bought perfume...but that demographic has changed so drastically.indieperfumeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16933060392329498890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-33582591028111457662008-08-22T19:51:00.000+02:002008-08-22T19:51:00.000+02:00So it's "Ferme tes yeux, ouvre tes narines" for me...So it's "Ferme tes yeux, ouvre tes narines" for me, then...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-18054219200088805552008-08-22T17:38:00.000+02:002008-08-22T17:38:00.000+02:00PS: I second March on Ferme tes Yeux!PS: I second March on Ferme tes Yeux!Qwendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10283489032029545283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-29766828360385249012008-08-22T16:21:00.000+02:002008-08-22T16:21:00.000+02:00Thanks I.I was just re-reading what psychoanalysts...Thanks I.<BR/>I was just re-reading what psychoanalysts, starting with Freud, have to say about the fascination with odours, and according to them, it could definitely be linked to the relationship established between mother and baby through smells... So you're pretty much on target!carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-18568369971701116932008-08-22T13:10:00.000+02:002008-08-22T13:10:00.000+02:00Mother's Milk, to me...What a great article,!I jus...Mother's Milk, to me...<BR/>What a great article,!<BR/><BR/>I just love the skank.<BR/>Bring on da funk.<BR/>Bring on da Skank.chayaruchamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04889166567884475415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-81545649317122604812008-08-22T08:41:00.000+02:002008-08-22T08:41:00.000+02:00Thanks W.!Hitler's favourite painter? Wow. That wo...Thanks W.!<BR/>Hitler's favourite painter? Wow. That would fit it with a stinky theme, wouldn't it? Though Von Stuck isn't exactly Arno Brecker, is he? A little degenerate, say?<BR/>I'm not sure how ambergris fits into that scheme: I've never smelled an actual lump of it, just tincture, but I remember reading it's not necessarily wholly suave when you find it lying on the beach. It certainly has an unsavory origin, though, as Octavian says above, for centuries no one knew exactly where it came from.<BR/>I accept your offer gladly! (and then watch me get hooked).carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-10702589218199582852008-08-22T05:16:00.000+02:002008-08-22T05:16:00.000+02:00Ah, Denyse, what a fascinating post, and great con...Ah, Denyse, what a fascinating post, and great conversation! Reminds me of the heady LT Perfume Notes days. Von Stuck, what a strange painter, I saw an amazing one in Vienna and have looked for more, and an Austrian painter told me he was Hitler's favorite.<BR/><BR/>Where does whale vomit fit into the category of stinky animal scents to you? I did my Wormwood experiment last night, and at the last moment added a few drops of Ambergris tincture to the mix, and it did that magical smoothing and enhancing thing that LT told us about when we all split some Ambergris and made tinctures from it!<BR/><BR/>I"ll send you a sample!Qwendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10283489032029545283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-36973671276524657132008-08-21T22:42:00.000+02:002008-08-21T22:42:00.000+02:00Hi, Simone, I'm so happy to be read in Brazil! I'm...Hi, Simone, I'm so happy to be read in Brazil! I'm looking forward to going back one day...<BR/>You're right, balance is everything in a composition. Some niche lines don't work for me for that reason, even though they're interesting at the outset.<BR/>I've never had your experience, it must've been awful. Once you pick up an unpleasant note, it's impossible to shake the association -- hope you hadn't bought the bottle!carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-77409765577825210732008-08-21T21:07:00.000+02:002008-08-21T21:07:00.000+02:00In perfumery, somethings are love and hate, they g...In perfumery, somethings are love and hate, they go together and there is a thin line between them.<BR/>I once tried a perfume that somehow smelled nicely for the first 30 minutes and than a awful fecal smell appeared.<BR/>i think the trick is to know how to balance the raw materials.<BR/>regards, SimoneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-5755808596329633802008-08-21T13:17:00.000+02:002008-08-21T13:17:00.000+02:00Insanely stinky? Only in a perfume blog would that...Insanely stinky? Only in a perfume blog would that be praise! ;-)carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-29778394551069850632008-08-21T13:11:00.000+02:002008-08-21T13:11:00.000+02:00I heard about the putative reformulation of Rose P...I heard about the putative reformulation of <I>Rose Poivrée</I> as well. I bought mine within the last few months, so if it has been reformulated, I must either have a bottle of the old stock, or it must have been even more disturbingly and insanely stinky before. Mine seems quite potent enough as it is!Jarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08320628861633769796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-36319910375941379412008-08-21T10:21:00.000+02:002008-08-21T10:21:00.000+02:00Jarvis,you've named many of my favourites. I've re...Jarvis,you've named many of my favourites. I've read some comments about Rose Poivrée having been reformulated since its launch, and de-skanked. I'd need to compare my mini to what's in the shop right now. <BR/>I wonder if one becomes a perfume lover because of a higher threshold of tolerance to, or an active interest in, skank -- in other words, a less inhibited approach to smells -- or if it's a matter of evolving taste, of pushing back the boundaries. Possibly both.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-58657447485071199862008-08-21T10:14:00.000+02:002008-08-21T10:14:00.000+02:00March, you know I've never worked up the nerve to ...March, you know I've never worked up the nerve to step into that tiny JAR shop tucked away on the rue de Castiglione... I really should. Some day when I'm wearing my furs, firmly ask for Ferme tes yeux, and find out if we should add barnyard to bacon as a smell that turns men on.<BR/><BR/>I don't buy magazines (self-enforced rules, books already occupy half the living-room) but I'll have a look at that Vogue. <BR/>I think there might be a relationship indeed between foodie and perfumista obsessions with stink: a sort of degree of refinement/perversion.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-81116247079049069492008-08-21T05:06:00.000+02:002008-08-21T05:06:00.000+02:00Hi, Denyse -- thanks for the lovely article, and t...Hi, Denyse -- thanks for the lovely article, and the fascinating discussion here in the comments. I think I must be another "skank-lover", since I have a fascination with Eau D'Hermès, Muscs Koublaï Khän, Jicky, and others. I was also just thinking tonight about the skank-factor in TDC Rose Poivrée...Jarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08320628861633769796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-49472866087971926992008-08-21T02:35:00.000+02:002008-08-21T02:35:00.000+02:00Now, that was a fun and educational read -- your p...Now, that was a fun and educational read -- your post and the comments! To your smell-someday list I would like to add the JAR Terme tes Yeux (and I apologize if I just spelled that wrong) which is extremely animalic. I asked the SA once whether they sold much, and he told me that older couples, husband and wife, would come in together to try on the fragrances, and quite often they picked that one. He said the men found it very sexy. It smells like a very high-end barnyard to me.<BR/><BR/>In this month's US Vogue there is an article you might enjoy by a food writer in pursuit of stinky foods (he starts off with durian, moves on to cheeses and other items) that talks about the relationship of the smell to the taste. I hadn't thought about it, but being obsessed with smelly foods is in some ways similar to the obsession with smelly fragrances.<BR/><BR/>I have three different versions of Bal, and the range of skank is extraordinary. I wonder why.Marchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443611475172148130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-66957962962473160072008-08-21T00:06:00.000+02:002008-08-21T00:06:00.000+02:00Dusan, now I *really* have to smell it (not forget...Dusan, now I *really* have to smell it (not forgetting the Charogne, Billy!).carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-25851778352546948812008-08-21T00:05:00.000+02:002008-08-21T00:05:00.000+02:00Emmanuella, the clichés about Frenchwomen not shav...Emmanuella, the clichés about Frenchwomen not shaving and about the dubious hygiene of French people are part of the folklore, I guess. I still see people buying Langres, Münster, Brie and Camembert, though -- stinky, I guess, is in the nose of the beholder, so to speak... <BR/>As for men... There's the French expression "je ne peux pas le sentir", which means "I can't stand him", but is literally translated as "I can't smell him". I've usually trusted my nose. Except for my ex. And look where that got me -- you don't want to know ;-)carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-37549902558448491532008-08-21T00:02:00.000+02:002008-08-21T00:02:00.000+02:00Seconding Emmanuella there on the Narcisse Noir. I...Seconding Emmanuella there on the Narcisse Noir. In my previous comment I forgot to mention what I think was relevant to my experience of this perfume: I've only tried it in extrait. That, I believe, accounts for the strong animalic/fecal whiff I get from it. I did put it on again today and sure enough it was majestic but not something I'd like my girlfriend to wear. Not that she would want to. Ever! :DDusanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06499372234215611666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-83334792538277717912008-08-20T22:19:00.000+02:002008-08-20T22:19:00.000+02:00Carmencanada, I believe vintage extrait of Le Narc...Carmencanada, I believe vintage extrait of Le Narcisse Noir has got to be the most animalic perfume I have of my collection. It 's expensive to find but still more affordable than most Guerlain vintage perfumes such as Ondee.<BR/><BR/>Cultural perception is everything too. I was raised in France and never had stinky cheese, I do not believe younger french people eat that anymore. I never encountered french women not shaving their armpits yet today I still get americans (not New Yorkers thanks goodness for that LOL) who ask me every now and then why french women don 't shave their armpits. <BR/>I 've been with all kinds of men here in New York; middle eastern, mediterraneans, latinos... well from my experience the cleanest guys were all arabs, like the japanese they always wash themselves after going and pardon my language but the dirtiest stinky assholes I 've seen were all white bred-american men.Uellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470633955030465849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-71454258996872618392008-08-20T20:17:00.000+02:002008-08-20T20:17:00.000+02:00Very well put, Oblitterati! I didn't touch on the ...Very well put, Oblitterati! I didn't touch on the subject of over-ripe fruit, but many of the fruity chypres I love have that sort of past-their-prime, on the verge of spoiling smell. Roudnitska did it well, and so did Jacques Guerlain.<BR/>I love your comparison with painting -- a dash of darkness or ambiguity to bring out the radiant...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-90271623438940172242008-08-20T20:04:00.000+02:002008-08-20T20:04:00.000+02:00Ahh, the old memento mori. One of the things I lov...Ahh, the old memento mori. One of the things I love about SL Bois et Fruits is that the fruits smell a little over-ripe, like a Northern Renaissance still life of fruits and flowers and perhaps a fly or two. Or maybe there's a skull in the background. It's that extra touch that keeps art grounded in the physical world and helps separate it from fantasy or pornography. Maybe bringing in a little civet is the perfumer's equivalent of blending complimentary colors rather than using the pigment straight from the tube. The result is richer and offers a context in which undiluted tones can really shine.the oblitteratihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06378200477501417142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-8540086682083307382008-08-20T15:08:00.000+02:002008-08-20T15:08:00.000+02:00Scent Self, aren't my commenters something else? I...Scent Self, aren't my commenters something else? I'm happy (and flattered) that there's an actual discussion going on here, not that there aren't in other blogs...<BR/>For Narcisse Noir, I've just answered Dusan (above).<BR/>And as for the illustrations, it *is* the same painter: I had the "French" one saved up and looked for another painting by Von Stuck. If there's a difference in connotation, surely it's my subconscious speaking rather than a deliberate calculation!carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-31130875527718679602008-08-20T15:02:00.000+02:002008-08-20T15:02:00.000+02:00Dusan, I've never smelled vintage Narcisse Noir (o...Dusan, I've never smelled vintage Narcisse Noir (only have an 80s edt) so I can't comment on it, and it's entirely unaffordable now on fleabay, but I'd be dying to see what all the fuss is about!<BR/>And jasmine on the bush, well... I'm sure the owner didn't mind missing a few blossoms.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-52458727104232359152008-08-20T15:01:00.000+02:002008-08-20T15:01:00.000+02:00Matt, isn't Bal à Versailles wonderful? So saturat...Matt, isn't Bal à Versailles wonderful? So saturated and dense. I don't find it remotely stinky, I was even a little disappointed not to find the "used panties" note mentioned by some commenters on the Posse a while ago...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.com