tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post5279696846971724664..comments2024-03-17T09:15:32.662+01:00Comments on Grain de musc: Sartorial by Bertrand Duchaufour for Penhaligon's: Subverting Fougèrecarmencanada /Grain de Muschttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-91905741854602097222010-10-19T19:56:19.433+02:002010-10-19T19:56:19.433+02:00Persolaise, you may have something there -- about ...Persolaise, you may have something there -- about our over-intellectualizing... In a way, I consider the perfumes I write about as springboards for writing, so I'll happily indulge in my intellectual bent!carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-47362109943754071232010-10-19T19:45:26.683+02:002010-10-19T19:45:26.683+02:00I think you may well have something there, Denyse:...I think you may well have something there, Denyse: this is a horrible generalisation, but most men are probably happy to spray themselves with whatever has clear connotations of 'man', whereas perfume-loving men probably want to spray themselves with whatever has connotations of originality.<br /><br />But then, having said that, even though I wouldn't call myself a fougere fan, I do own Azzaro and Rive Gauche Pour Homme and there are times when I enjoy wearing them for their old-school, hairy-chested glory. Maybe I would've seen Sartorial as more daring and enjoyable if it had thrown decorum to the wind and really plunged headlong into Brut territory? Maybe it's trying too hard to be a clever-clever example of a genre that doesn't lend itself to being clever-clever?<br /><br />Maybe we're just over-intellectualising this juice???Persolaisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04192014353722036319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-55216661467965795372010-10-18T23:25:07.263+02:002010-10-18T23:25:07.263+02:00Persolaise, I was discussing this with a friend an...Persolaise, I was discussing this with a friend and we were saying that especially for male fragrance lovers, fougères may awaken a certain type of rejection -- after all, it's what you gentlemen wanted to get away from to start with, in a way... I've found that by digging into the machine room it became much more interesting, but I'm not the target so the genre doesn't have strong connotations for me.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-63798840610750189202010-10-18T23:07:28.214+02:002010-10-18T23:07:28.214+02:00Okay, I've finally been able to try this for m...Okay, I've finally been able to try this for myself.<br /><br />I can see where you're coming from with your review, Denyse, but in terms of a more emotional response, I was left a bit disappointed. I guess part of the problem is that I tend not to get excited by fougeres, although I can appreciate that M Duchaufour has constructed this particular one very cleverly. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if it's a success for Penhaligon's.<br /><br />By the way, your readers may be interested to know that I'm currently holding a giveaway draw for a sample of Sartorial on my blog, www.persolaise.comPersolaisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04192014353722036319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-11831289815902095332010-09-28T13:22:43.320+02:002010-09-28T13:22:43.320+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par l'auteur.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-85499504780081471812010-09-28T13:20:03.128+02:002010-09-28T13:20:03.128+02:00Rose, I'm glad at least one person reading thi...Rose, I'm glad at least one person reading this post has tested it! It's always a bit frustrating to write about something that's not out yet, though I believe there are testers under the counters already. And, yes, definitely Penhaligon's are turning into significant players thanks to their collaboration with BD.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-111368525486143822010-09-28T11:21:39.542+02:002010-09-28T11:21:39.542+02:00it's stunning isn't it- and I've only ...it's stunning isn't it- and I've only tried it on paper- I am yet to smell it on skin. They are on fire at the moment and so is Duchafour.Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08459305021803770946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-79326843117491814402010-09-22T09:58:30.678+02:002010-09-22T09:58:30.678+02:00Jarvis, I didn't bring Derrida into the fray b...Jarvis, I didn't bring Derrida into the fray because this was intellectual enough a post as it was but of course I was a student of his and it shows. You could also say the<br />notion of the masculine implodes under the accumulated pressure of masculine signs. Which may be why this could work for a woman.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-35701379378083795652010-09-22T08:44:02.081+02:002010-09-22T08:44:02.081+02:00D, Your use of the word "displacement" m...D, Your use of the word "displacement" made me think about "différance" -- in this case, the chain of never-quite-exhausted masculine signifiers that are simultaneously invoked, displaced, deferred in the construction of a "masculine" fragrance. It's by virtue of those displacements and dissonances (e.g. the elegant masculinity of the Savile Row suit undermined by the brutish masculinity of Brut) that masculinity itself can be subverted.Jarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08320628861633769796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-86996234763015008092010-09-22T08:29:19.469+02:002010-09-22T08:29:19.469+02:00Jarvis, this reminds me of the discussion on this ...Jarvis, this reminds me of the discussion on this blog about the gender of notes: fougère/lavender were indeed considered by the majority as the maximum masculine setting -- I'm sure Brut had a lot to do with that, even before the giant 70s/80s fougères like Azzaro and Paco Rabanne... <br />But Sartorial is well worth testing because it's enough of a displacement of the style.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-49359680554412670062010-09-22T08:00:25.345+02:002010-09-22T08:00:25.345+02:00Hello, Denyse. What a masterful review of what sou...Hello, Denyse. What a masterful review of what sounds like a fascinating fragrance. You've inspired me to search it out, in spite of my difficult relationship with classic masculine fougères. At some point during my childhood, my father switched from Old Spice to Brut, which I always thought was a huge mistake. No amount of lobbying on my part could get him to switch back (although in the last year, I finally convinced him to switch to Hermès Eau d'Orange Verte). There was always something about that lavender-coumarin accord that I found loud and crass. It's made it difficult to this day for me to appreciate masculine fougères (with a few rare exceptions -- Pascal Morabito's Or Black, with its smoky tea effect, comes to mind).<br /><br />That said, I love the idea of a subverted fougère, especially one that seems, as you describe it, to reference multiple "frames" simultaneously -- this mise en abyme. For some reason, the idea of subverted Savile Row suits makes me think of Thom Browne.Jarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08320628861633769796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-25202059234710326072010-09-21T08:56:19.484+02:002010-09-21T08:56:19.484+02:00Anonymous, I must confess I feel the same way: I e...Anonymous, I must confess I feel the same way: I enjoy BD's pre-2009 work, but never wore it, perhaps for the same reasons. But in the past year he's come up with a different register and I've become a convert.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-78851816754583682172010-09-21T08:52:01.188+02:002010-09-21T08:52:01.188+02:00Sugandaraja, as far as I can tell, there was a ser...Sugandaraja, as far as I can tell, there was a series of materials BD used quite a lot for a while, though not in his recent florals: Corps Racine, carrot CO2 (for iris effects), davana and celery. The effect is somewhat vegetable/savoury. That may be what you dislike. I don't get that vibe at all from Sartorial and though BD is still using some of those materials, I find his recent work to be moving away from his former register, including the new Frapin and L'Artisan.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-14382095393737740682010-09-21T08:50:59.057+02:002010-09-21T08:50:59.057+02:00I have trouble with it, too, Sugandaraja. Like you...I have trouble with it, too, Sugandaraja. Like you, I find most of them interesting but not wearable. Amaranthine was an exception, it's definitely warmer, and missing that peculiar green pepper/olives/sour something note. Maybe it's a skin thing....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-15721909827542691082010-09-20T23:16:31.320+02:002010-09-20T23:16:31.320+02:00Could be! The only green fragrance I know by him i...Could be! The only green fragrance I know by him is Magnolia Romana; if there is a green note in his others it just may smell like vinegar to me. I associate snap-pea smell with whatever aromachemical/s is/are used in Carnal Flower, which doesn't trouble my nose.<br /><br />The worst offenders are Bois d'Ombrie ( which I once described as salsa in a wallet ) and Dzongkha. Even Paestum Rose, which I found agreeable at first, began to get on my wick with a certain apple-cider vinegar quality. All I know is that I'm not alone on this - a few other folks on Basenotes have a bad reaction to the "Duchaufourade".Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-90362772393797315232010-09-20T21:53:08.834+02:002010-09-20T21:53:08.834+02:00Sugandaraja, I'm trying to figure out what you...Sugandaraja, I'm trying to figure out what you read as vinegar... He often uses those green pepper/snapped pea pod notes... Maybe that's it, in some combination with some other material?<br /><br />The mere thought of fougère usually makes my skin crawl, and Sartorial may lean too much on the masculine side for me to make it a staple, but I actually enjoyed wearing it while test-driving it on and off for a few days. It's certainly not for everyone, but it's undeniably fascinating.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-41701198098803891902010-09-20T21:44:58.235+02:002010-09-20T21:44:58.235+02:00I really enjoyed your review, but I have to admit ...I really enjoyed your review, but I have to admit - Brut, Ozonic Accords, Bois d'Ombrie? In the same fragrance!? This sounds like my kryptonite...<br /><br /> Mr. Duchaufour undoubtedly has produced a string of original fragrances, but I find the majority tainted by a peculiar woody-vinegar note ( everything from the new Nuit de Tubereuse to the fan-favorite Dzongkha, and including most of his work for L'Artisan and Eau d'Italie ). The only fragrance of his I have no trouble wearing is also one I don't find at all interesting ( Amaranthine ).<br /><br /> I'm afraid in my experience his creations are the fragrance analog of H. R. Giger paintings - interesting, original, but no way do I want one in my house! ( Or in this case, on my skin. )Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-39699381326207620512010-09-20T20:25:30.231+02:002010-09-20T20:25:30.231+02:00Bee, thanks for dropping by to comment! Sartorial ...Bee, thanks for dropping by to comment! Sartorial will be coming out in a couple of weeks, I think... But as the testers are out, I couldn't resist writing it up before the official launch!carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-39459324919504925332010-09-20T20:19:14.790+02:002010-09-20T20:19:14.790+02:00your description is incredible! thanks for bringin...your description is incredible! thanks for bringing it to my attention!<br />BeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-13538022183238361572010-09-20T09:16:53.874+02:002010-09-20T09:16:53.874+02:00Dea, in this case I find that the perfume dictated...Dea, in this case I find that the perfume dictated its own reading because of its intelligence.<br />As for the book, well, I'm working on it like a fiend...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-60739009669362979692010-09-20T00:29:11.864+02:002010-09-20T00:29:11.864+02:00What a wonderful review, denyse! Your writing imme...What a wonderful review, denyse! Your writing immerses the reader in the lyrical and analytical, which is so hard to do. Precise, succinct and with a breath of sensuality that brings the subject matter to life. <br /><br />You have such a gift. I am waiting with bated breath to buy your book.deahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13968291226191425647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-90919066341222576222010-09-19T22:24:52.611+02:002010-09-19T22:24:52.611+02:00Persolaise, I doubt it'll be to everyone's...Persolaise, I doubt it'll be to everyone's liking, because it's a fragrance with very strong options, unlike the consensus-seeking Bleu. Trouble is they're not competing on the same field since Bleu can be found everywhere, and it's got the firepower of Chanel behind it. This is what the mainstream should be doing, but as everyone's afraid of taking risks in case they're made responsible for a flop... You get things like Bleu.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-84504730811019569932010-09-19T22:18:30.902+02:002010-09-19T22:18:30.902+02:00Denyse, this was already one of the most highly-an...Denyse, this was already one of the most highly-anticipated masculines of the pre-Christmas release schedule, but I think your review has just pushed its status into the stratosphere.<br /><br />I cannot wait to try it. Thank you for making it sound so enticing to someone for whom a classic fougere has never been the No. 1 scent of choice.<br /><br />I think it's generally accepted that Chanel's Bleu has been a major let down, but perhaps we'll all be appeased by the skills of M Duchaufour?Persolaisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04192014353722036319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-64356367182085960042010-09-19T20:30:22.486+02:002010-09-19T20:30:22.486+02:00Brian, it is (I mean the scent). I hate the normal...Brian, it is (I mean the scent). I hate the normal masculine fougère, both on myself and on men, and I wore this with pleasure.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-86793693679983974452010-09-19T20:27:57.631+02:002010-09-19T20:27:57.631+02:00The scent sounds amazing, and your review is fanta...The scent sounds amazing, and your review is fantastic!Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15901254954146927255noreply@blogger.com