tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post4158325009233863369..comments2024-03-28T10:30:51.283+01:00Comments on Grain de musc: A Few Considerations on Natural Perfumery and Web 2.0carmencanada /Grain de Muschttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-35640330412528731412011-02-22T07:26:30.028+01:002011-02-22T07:26:30.028+01:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.women pheromoneshttp://luvessentials.com/pheromones_women.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-69795605949536761252010-07-07T08:48:32.535+02:002010-07-07T08:48:32.535+02:00Trish, I don't believe anyone did, thanks for ...Trish, I don't believe anyone did, thanks for the add. This is a whole world I haven't really explored yet. Perfumista dirge: "So many perfumes, so little skin! And only one nose!"carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-72894315937810292102010-07-07T08:47:21.273+02:002010-07-07T08:47:21.273+02:00RM, I supposed you did, and it's hard to categ...RM, I supposed you did, and it's hard to categorize the bulk of perfumery using synthetics when you're distinguishing it from natural/botanical perfumes. I've struggled to find a term myself. "Classic" doesn't quite cover it.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-88271428346890088032010-07-07T06:42:44.244+02:002010-07-07T06:42:44.244+02:00Did anyone mention Liz Zorn and DSH as other perfu...Did anyone mention Liz Zorn and DSH as other perfumers who have all natural perfumes as well as ones with synthetics?<br /><br />I'm so glad Sugandaraja brought up Ayala Moriel as a natural perfumer who approaches many of her perfumes in a classical framework. Her Palas Atena and Espionage come to mind.Scent Hivehttp://www.scenthive.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-81079138369490251432010-07-07T00:43:52.268+02:002010-07-07T00:43:52.268+02:00My apologies, by 'synthetics' I merely mea...My apologies, by 'synthetics' I merely meant not naturals. I'm well aware that most fragrances contain a combination of naturals and synthetic materials but thank-you anyway for the clarification.<br />I look forward with interest to your reviews.RMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-21927219339380275482010-07-06T19:34:48.441+02:002010-07-06T19:34:48.441+02:00Sugandaraja, I could add to the list of indies wor...Sugandaraja, I could add to the list of indies working with both natural and synthetics Andy Tauer and Vero Kern (though Vero is not self-taught since she attended 5ème sens).<br />I was thinking of Ayala Moriel as a perfect example of an indie, self-taught natural perfumer who understands, and is inspired by, classic as well as contemporary perfumery. I met her in Paris some time ago, she offered me a few samples of her work, I was impressed and then... pressed by other emergencies, I failed to review them. I am remiss. It was excellent stuff.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-18384288274768942032010-07-06T19:25:25.813+02:002010-07-06T19:25:25.813+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-66179840224321185722010-07-06T19:23:56.189+02:002010-07-06T19:23:56.189+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-89280193124274960382010-07-06T19:22:53.762+02:002010-07-06T19:22:53.762+02:00Thank you for your in-depth response!
You are ri...Thank you for your in-depth response!<br /><br /> You are right, it is quite unfair of me not to have included the perfumers working within the more mainstream industry who've explored unique and unusual essences ( some niche lines in particular come to mind, for example karo karounde in L'Artisan's Timbuktu ).<br /><br /> In light of that it's also worth noting that not all natural perfumery is along indie, small-scale lines. Aveda is a hugely successful international line whose fragrances are all natural, and isn't part of the self-taught "craft" tradition I described in my earlier response. However, I must say I find Aveda's creations rather crude and simplistic, well below the average quality level found in artisanal natural perfumery and in mainstream perfumery utilizing synthetics, bearing a stronger kinship with the simple aromatherapy blends one can find at most health food stores.<br /><br /> Conversely, there are also a number of perfumers working within this self-taught, artisanal movement who do use synthetics in their palette. Laurie Erickson of Sonoma Scent Studio comes to mind.<br /><br /> Your point about working both inside and outside the broader culture of perfumery is an interesting one, as I can think of examples of both within natural perfumery. Dominique Dubrana of Profumo.it, for example, deliberately eschews perfumery utilizing synthetics altogether, and by extension, the bulk of modern western perfumery; Ayala Sender of Ayala Moriel, despite being self-taught and only using naturals, both enjoys and references western perfumery in her work. For example, her Ayalitta is an all-natural that strongly evokes a classical chypre in the vein of Coty's original, though it's certainly a unique scent of its own ( whether it would force Luca to start eating hats is unknown, but I for one enjoy its verdant chypre accord more than the modern formulation of Mitsouko ).Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-80260375232895979502010-07-06T18:51:45.016+02:002010-07-06T18:51:45.016+02:00If anyone is wondering why there are so many suppr...If anyone is wondering why there are so many suppressed comments, it's just that mine and Sugandaraja's kept disappearing, and we kept re-posting them, and then they all popped up together. Such are the mysteries of Blogspot...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-24061262813150518572010-07-06T18:45:47.092+02:002010-07-06T18:45:47.092+02:00Mark, now they're all showing up! Weird... Tha...Mark, now they're all showing up! Weird... Thanks, I'll be suppressing now...carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-89416064472683621902010-07-06T18:43:19.176+02:002010-07-06T18:43:19.176+02:00I see your comment three times.
Thankfully Iam no...I see your comment three times.<br /><br />Thankfully Iam not seeing dead people. (A very little "Sixth Sense humor there)Miami Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12728578016551788661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-68850420496946553132010-07-06T16:19:19.745+02:002010-07-06T16:19:19.745+02:00Sugandaraja, thank you for this long and thoughtfu...Sugandaraja, thank you for this long and thoughtful comment.<br /><br />I've been thinking along the lines of the crafts movement as it developed in the anglo-saxon world, but I'll need to go back to the book I've been reading before expressing more about that.<br /><br />One of the difficulties of starting from scratch is spending years re-inventing what's taught in perfumery schools in a couple of years. This approach can yield an original and compelling understanding of materials and accords in the best of cases, a tentative and muddied approach in the worst.<br /><br />Of course, as the movement grows and natural perfumers perfect their craft, we can look forward, as you say, to new and exciting approaches.<br /><br />There would also be, as in all the crafts movements, a difference between people who work in total isolation from commercial perfumery (don't study the scents, don't seek them out) and those who have developed a wide-ranging culture of perfumery. This is also what has happened within the crafts movements.<br /><br />As for exploring unique essences, this is not the exclusive purview of natural perfumers, though of course, if those essences are produced in tiny quantities, they can only be used by small outfits. Perfumers who care about their art constantly explore and re-explore materials and accords, whatever their training. It's not a matter of separating the explorers (indie, self-taught, adventurous) from the establishment... There's a whole gradient of approaches here.<br /><br />(for some reason, my comment keeps disappearing. If anyone sees it posted three times, please tell me!)carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-8615172969364340712010-07-06T16:18:04.603+02:002010-07-06T16:18:04.603+02:00RM, first of all, the scents I usually review are ...RM, first of all, the scents I usually review are not "synthetics". They're compositions that use both natural and synthetic raw materials, and most scents I write about do in fact contain an above-average quantity of natural materials. <br /><br />As for applying "unfair" criteria... I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. That it would be unfair to judge indie perfumers by the same standards as more commercial, formally-trained ones? Or that the set of standards used to evaluate natural perfumes should be different? It seems to me that's the questions I was asking myself in this post: I don't pretend to have the answer.<br />Or are you saying that it's unfair to those perfumes to have them reviewed by someone who self-avowedly hasn't explored natural perfumery? Anya invited me. She knows what I write, and what I write about. I accepted, taking the risk of venturing outside my own comfort zone.<br /><br />I will be taking into account my lack of familiarity with the genre, and with the work of the individual perfumers. So rest assured that I won't be flaming these fragrances, any more than I do more commercial ones in general -- if you read me, you must know that I'm not particularly snarky or dismissive.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-67003983593083919172010-07-06T15:50:08.377+02:002010-07-06T15:50:08.377+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par l'auteur.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-66273704770914935692010-07-06T15:39:26.557+02:002010-07-06T15:39:26.557+02:00I'm just wondering if when you review these sc...I'm just wondering if when you review these scents and it may happen that for whatever reason you don't like them, does that mean that they're not good? And will comparing them to the normal criteria you apply for synthetics be unfair and an unjust comparison?RMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-58217137680403010022010-07-06T09:56:52.900+02:002010-07-06T09:56:52.900+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par l'auteur.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-45401914291737235942010-07-06T09:22:16.680+02:002010-07-06T09:22:16.680+02:00I believe the enormous expansion of natural perfum...I believe the enormous expansion of natural perfumery is exciting, in the sense that we are witnessing the birth of a new tradition, largely growing in isolation from professional perfumery as it is practiced in France, and developing a different aesthetic. Natural perfumers have often had to start from scratch, especially some of the first ones, and had to figure out what goes best with what according to their noses rather than what they've been taught.<br /><br />I often have problems with natural fragrances, and some lines and fragrances I find prone to weakness, muddiness, or crudity. But, I see an increased sophistication with each year, and a fascinating addition mainstream perfumery could benefit from in the form of exploring unique and unusual natural essences in the quest to add diversity to a comparatively limited palette.Sugandarajahttp://aromierotici.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-7519751182676107452010-07-06T09:21:35.732+02:002010-07-06T09:21:35.732+02:00Comparing the highly internationalized field of cl...Comparing the highly internationalized field of classical music with the strongly nationalized tradition of French perfumery, it makes quite a lot of sense that overseas the idea of how a perfume should be composed will begin to diverge in absence of a standardized influence. If you want to become educated as a perfumer, there are no universities offering studies comparable with what is taught in France, and many simply are not willing or able to relocate. This leaves limited options, and is part of the reason I believe we are witnessing the enormous growth in natural perfumery: natural perfumers have extended themselves as tutors to the general public to a far greater extent than those among the mainstream industry.Sugandarajahttp://aromierotici.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-36716527037519558032010-07-06T09:20:02.283+02:002010-07-06T09:20:02.283+02:00From what I've read from interviews of people ...From what I've read from interviews of people involved in the French perfume industry, its a fairly small and close-knit circle compared to other fields, and strongly associated with that country. I tend to believe any academic process which teaches artists also influences their style, so I do not see why this would be any different in perfumers.<br /><br />A good contrast is what has happened in classical music over the past one hundred years or so. Prior to WW1, there was a large diversity of regional styles in playing, singing, and composing music. The bright, reedy, vocal quality cultivated in French orchestras gave a very different sound from the dark, powerful, heavy timbres cultivated by the Germans, and English and Russian orchestras likewise had their own style. With the increasingly international standardization in instrument manufacture and playing technique, orchestras have increasingly become homogeneous with each decade, to the point where one would be hard-pressed to identify which nation they're based in from sound alone.Sugandarajahttp://aromierotici.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-38358660282367425412010-07-06T05:20:55.651+02:002010-07-06T05:20:55.651+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-81464886511110950412010-07-06T05:20:55.652+02:002010-07-06T05:20:55.652+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-78466965124572040622010-07-06T05:19:52.110+02:002010-07-06T05:19:52.110+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-56221381771130738442010-07-06T05:19:52.109+02:002010-07-06T05:19:52.109+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4922907157797061660.post-76036447743358021132010-07-06T05:19:18.633+02:002010-07-06T05:19:18.633+02:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par un administrateur du blog.Sugandarajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062165425090675638noreply@blogger.com